Hélène:
Hello, and welcome back to smart consulting sourcing. The only podcast about consulting procurement.
Management consultants are often viewed as the paid help that management teams bring in to sort out their problems. And while management consultancy can involve offering advice and guidance on a range of issues, it goes much deeper than that.
And today, we’re going to talk about just that, but before we get to today’s discussion point, let me give you a recap about our previous episode.
There are many consulting firms out there, and each of them offer great services to their clients, but to evaluate that performance and impact they can bring to your consulting project, you need to have a look at many factors, such as the firm’s ownership structure, partner profiles, size and geographic footprint, for example, but people can, and we still rank the consulting firms based on prestige, brand awareness, thought leadership, et cetera, and surely MBB will top the charts.
But let me ask you something. Do you really need the most prestigious consulting firm for your project?
Of course, if you’re looking for political value, you know, to ease or justify a decision to your board of directors, then you might have little alternatives, but if you are working on a more operational project, is it still the right choice? Not so sure.
The real “best” consulting firm here will be the one that does the job, brings you the right impact and at a reasonable cost, right? So let’s use these rankings carefully as one of the sources to identify new players, but that’s the beginning of the journey to qualify them.
Because this qualification process has to be tailored to your company’s needs and ways of working. And one step further to the project that you want to launch. Performance rankings are a key topic for the consulting industry and are not where they should be in terms of reliability.
And it’s quite unbelievable to find rankings and customer feedbacks for pretty much everything, but not the categories as large as management consulting.
So, you can also listen to the complete podcast about consulting rankings on your major streaming platforms.
Hélène:
Hi, I’m Hélène. And today I have with me two very special guests, Eli Peleg and George Hemingway, both very skilled consultants.
Eli is a senior partner at Programa and George, a managing partner as Stratalis Consulting.
Welcome to the show guys.
George Hemingway:
Thanks for having us.
Hélène:
So today we’re going to explore what do consultants do and how they do their work with the clients and procurement.
So, Eli and George are both consultants, but they have different backgrounds and don’t do the same type of consulting work.
So, let’s get to know them a little bit better. Shall we? So let’s start with George. Could you tell us a bit about you and what consulting work you do?
George Hemingway:
Sure. I would be happy doing that. Thank you for having me again. So, I have been consulting and advising heads of state, heads of organizations, heads of some of the world’s largest, especially industrial companies, on the future and on uncertainty for the last 22 years or so.
Before that, I was an executive, in the food business, I ran a couple of public companies and stuff like that.
But for the last couple of decades, mostly what I have been helping folks understand is, you know, based on how the world is evolving or how it could evolve, what does that mean for their business? What does it mean for where they should grow?
What does it mean for how they should operate? What does it mean in terms of their, their vision for their company and, and for the world outside and, and what does that mean in terms of how they transform again, in terms of technology, in terms of the capabilities they need and so forth and so on?
George Hemingway:
So, a lot of my work is in helping to bring large companies together around concepts and ideas that normally would seem a little uncomfortable for them, and then help them sort out the path a very creative, a very clear tangible path from the bottom of the organization all the way up to, you know, to the board on what that essentially means to transform.
And that could mean helping a mining company thinking about what is the future of the mining industry and what does that mean for their portfolio?
It could be helping a bank, that’s say the largest regional bank, in their area to consider what does the future of trade barriers and geopolitical strife and populism mean for a local bank. Whatever the case may be. It’s really helping them think differently about what’s possible.
Hélène:
Right. Thanks. And Eli, that’s your turn and what type of consulting work are you doing?
Eli Peleg:
Yeah, I’m definitely coming from a different world of consultancy.
So I’ve been the last three decades doing operation management consultancy, which is more focusing on current business rather than the future with one major objective, which is to do what you do, a little bit better, again and again and again. So continuous improvement is basically the essence of what I do.
And I’ve done it in different regions, maybe 30 plus countries, three continents, hundreds of companies, both Fortune 500 and some SMBs. It has been a journey and an enjoyable one.
What value do clients get while working with consultants?
Hélène:
So, George, when you work with clients, what value do they get?
George Hemingway:
Generally, from the type of work we do? I would say the value that they get is that oftentimes a company has either reached a point, where it’s plateaued in terms of its growth or it’s plateaued in terms of its ability to actually achieve profitability, whatever its objectives are.
It’s reached a point at which it knows it’s facing some sort of potential showstopper down the road. So, the first and most clear value that they get is they get that path in order to continue to deliver value.
And sometimes the path they get is simply understanding what the heck value looks like in the future that might be different than the present.
So, clarity is the first thing they get, clarity and a direction. I think as a consultancy, you know, relative to say other consultancies and even relative to doing things internally, because you could figure out your path to value, you know, on your own, it’s often hard to break down internal silos and internal ways of thinking.
George Hemingway:
If you do things inside, we are a very bespoke, very high touch kind of consultancy.
So, we try our best to ask very uncomfortable questions, put our noses in places where we normally couldn’t get into and bring everyone around the table to sort of agree on that path or at least to understand their role in that path.
And I would say that’s the true value that we bring. Breaking down walls, thinking differently and creating a path to value that may not always be linear, especially in a world in which things are constantly changing.
Hélène:
Thanks. It’s what I call intangible value. So, you can’t measure it in numbers, but it’s still there and it’s still bringing something to the organization.
George Hemingway:
True, true. But unfortunately, because it means you really have to work hard; we still have to develop very clear business cases. Around the stuff we do. Otherwise, people wouldn’t pay us.
They certainly wouldn’t pay us the fees that we charge. Right. So, you know, if you’re charging hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars, there’s something people have to ask, well, what’s the end result.
So almost everything we do has a business case attached to it. Sometimes that business case is very tangible. It is a model that mirrors the operating platform that they work on down to individual hourly costs of labor.
So, you know, I think it’s really important to bear in mind that the, at least in my opinion, the best intangible consulting delivers tangible value and an argument that everyone from the CFO to someone that’s working in a plant can understand is why it matters.
The more intangible your output is the less likely you are to really be invited back to do that kind of work again, especially not at a price point that frankly is, oh, that was nice, expensive, but charming.
Expensive, but charming usually doesn’t get you a repeat and we have a hundred percent client repeat rate. So to get that you’ve gotta deliver tangible value. And I can’t imagine, you know, Eli’s in a world in which tangible value is everything. So yeah.
Hélène:
Yeah, absolutely. But that’s where I was going. It’s like, how is it different for you Eli in your experience, the value that you deliver to your clients?
Eli Peleg:
Yeah. I believe that again, without getting into specific what George is doing, I think the definition of value is a little bit easier.
So usually in an engagement there will be quantitative values that are defined or at least expectations. They might be on the cost side. So reducing some elements of cost. It might be on the revenue side where you can free up capacity of assets and resources to bring more business.
Assuming there is demand or just by getting more business having your operation quicker and leaner. So you’ll usually have quantitative measures and values, that are defined for an engagement.
I would though consider a good engagement -and I 100% agree with repeatable business is the only indication that matters – is that, what you do, can be repeated on an ongoing basis with you or without you.
So you put in place processes and structure that the client can expand to other area of the business, or keep on pushing on more tangible results using the same methods, the same system and mainly the same mindset of the internal team.
So that’s a value that usually is not defined in the engagement, but I see that as a value,
Hélène:
What are your typical interactions with procurement on your projects?
George Hemingway:
So, my typical engagement with procurement is quite limited actually, although, you know what, recently that hasn’t been the case.
So let me talk to you about a couple of different things. Generally speaking in our work, we are either one of the de facto consultancies that is used within a company, or if we’re new, we are known and we’ve been chosen because they’re tired of the usual suspects, or they’ve heard of our work and we’ve even passed on by word of mouth.
So by that point, you know, you have a discussion, you’ve scoped out something with the client itself, you’ve presented them with a proposal, you’ve even gone so far, maybe as to give them an indication of price, which sometimes, and is, or isn’t, you know, what should happen.
George Hemingway:
And, and then at the end, oh yeah, we’re gonna go with these guys, procurement gets involved. And so then at that point, procurement, you know, generally speaking, in most of our engagements, but it varies, right, most of our engagements, is in many ways, a formality.
A formality based on governmental or regulatory rules. There’s some pricing negotiation that can occasionally happen. And that’s a process that needs to be gone through. I actually think that that’s actually not great for companies.
It’s great for me, and I prefer it because my relationship is with my clients, but I do think there is something missing about a role there of procurement.
There are other cases where procurement, you know, is more deeply involved and this is mixed sort of blessing, depending on how intertwined procurement and the client is in terms of understanding of each other and requirements and needs.
The more specialized procurement is I find the more valuable they are. the more general they are, it’s kind of a checkbox in my general experience.
Hélène:
No, no, I think that’s a pretty fair point on the fact that, you know, collaboration in procurement in particular, in those very highly customized projects, it’s extremely important.
Because procurement cannot know whatever the client knows about their needs. So there’s really no way around. Do you share the same experience, Eli?
Eli Peleg:
I had a very interesting meeting yesterday with a Unilever executive from the procurement team which I can only assume it’s one of the best procurement organizations in the world.
And we didn’t talk about consultancy, but we talked about how the local and the global team works. And when I try to answer your question, compare to what they presented, it’s night and day: two totally different things.
And I’ll try to explain. So my personal experience is very similar to George. It’s mainly making sure I get the PO [note of the editor: Purchase Order] that’s where it starts and ends.
Some of them do get into a negotiation process. So, and they have an objective to reduce your initial quote, which you sent to your user or client. I have never seen one following on the project delivery. So I don’t see them in steerings.
Eli Peleg:
I don’t see them in final presentation. I don’t see them engaged. Sometimes when there are payment problems, they come handy again, but nothing about delivery.
Where if you look on actually when they deal with products, you know, materials that they acquire, they only end up their delivery responsibility when the product or the actual item is in the client warehouse.
And it’s good and valid. What else I haven’t seen is really understanding the marketplace. So that the notion of, you know, sourcing, you know, what are my potential suppliers doesn’t exist in our world in most cases.
And there is another thing that I don’t think exists in procurement in general, in a lot of companies, but after the discussion yesterday, I found it very interesting is research and analysis. So understanding the marketplace in general, not of your suppliers, but of the products.
Eli Peleg:
So what kind of demand and supply? what kind of price range you can get? What is the future derivatives that will affect that? It’s actually pure procurement research that, if you are a Unilever, you would have a team of 20 or 30 people doing so.
And if you are a BP, I’m sure you will have a large amount of analysts. Looking at that in the consulting world, I don’t think it exists.
So nobody really understands, or buys market research reports on the consulting world and who are the big players and who are the midsize places and what differences exist between what they provide. So they might approach George and me as the same supplier, which we are totally different.
We don’t deliver the same at all, but I don’t think anybody would understand that beside the client itself, not the procurement.
So there is a profound difference in what I see in procurement, where you deal with services like consultative, which is a bit more complicated than with a tangible product or commodities. And my experience is very similar to George.
Hélène:
So it’s very interesting what you said about that research. And I think that to their defense, there are no real serious market research available beyond the big players.
So if you look at the main market research reports that you see on the consulting industry, if you look at the fine lines, you’ll see, well, we went to the 20 biggest companies and everything else doesn’t exist.
Even when you look at the market sizing in consulting, if you really look at the fine lines, they just don’t consider anything under 500 employees, which is the bulk of the industry, right? That’s like, so that’s not where you have most of the revenues, but there are a lot, and a lot of companies.
As you were saying, an extremely diverse and scattered industry, where even if two companies on paper have the same profile, they seem to do the same work.
But actually when you dig a little bit, some are more strategic work, some are more hands on, some are former executives, some are purely consultants and so on.
So all of this really will have an impact on how they work. And I think you’re right. Procurement people, and especially when they’re not specialized, they have no clue of what’s the market.
George Hemingway:
And it’s an interesting challenge, right?
Because if you look at the market and you consider that, you know, the marketplace is based on the people that compete with each other, you know, you realize that, you know, our main competitors, for example, are BCG, McKinsey, and in certain areas, Deloitte and Deloitte’s Monitor group, and we’ve displaced them from some large, very large, you know, firms.
We’ve just entirely displaced them. And you know, but if you’re in that firm, you know, that if you’re outside of that firm, there’s no way that you would ever, unless you met us or someone told you, no, you would even heard of us because we’re a specialty boutique.
And some industries, Oh, yes. Oh, of course I know them, but outside of that, you’ve never heard of them.
So, you know, I think there’s an interesting component there. And I suspect, you know, Hélène, is things like, you know, individuals like yourself and your group do in understanding more broadly what the market looks like and what the options are.
And of course, there’s significant value generation for the company in that, right. Because there’s a reason boutiques gain market share. And while we deliver a specialized product, we’re also not always as expensive as some of our peers so
Hélène:
Fair enough.
Hélène:
I think you’re right. You know, I’m working right now on a survey that we did six years ago about how companies are handling their procurement for consulting services. And we did it again this, this year, and we see some progress, but not on every aspect.
One thing that I’ve seen progressing is the use of RFPs that are a little bit more structured than they were before.
So the only thing is that people tend to confuse RFP and bid. And meaning that they think that having an RFP means there’s a competition, which is not always the case. I mean, the RFP just laying down the requirements.
So we both share the expectations and we’re on the same page. So what’s your view on RFPs. And do you usually participate in them, Eli, let’s start with you this time.
Eli Peleg:
I think basically RFPs are a positive thing. Might take us to another question: How do you work with your client? But I think one of the main challenges working with the client at least that I’ve observed is keeping the engagement on track, both in terms of the activities and deliveries, and of course, sometimes the schedule.
You always get that notion: Why won’t you check that as well? Or why won’t you do that as well? If you have a good RFP, it is a bit more structured and clear both to yourself as well as the end clients.
So I think RFPs, if they they’re good enough, are a positive thing. I don’t see them that much. Usually an RFP is more of an SOW which is based on the proposals that I have submitted, copy paste with some legal, and that’s it.
I also think that an RFP is a way to enable procurement to monitor contractual execution, which they don’t do as well.
So there are benefits in an RFP, but it takes time, energy, and effort, which I don’t think, is there, maybe because of lack of resources or knowledge or an understanding that it is important. So in a nutshell, it’s a good thing, but I don’t see it a lot.
George Hemingway:
I think so. I mean I have mixed feelings on RFPs. So the first thing is we generally speaking as a rule, don’t answer RFPs except in rare exceptions.
And part of the reason for that is that, you know, our manner of work is such that we often end up helping our clients to scope what it is they actually want. Oftentimes people don’t know what they want.
They have a general idea of what the end needs to be, but not a lot of idea of enough structure in order to understand how to get there.
What they’re interested in is our approach to get there. It’s unique. So therefore, you know, it’s hard to put an RFP around that now. On occasion, I do see good RFPs. I saw one recently from GE and it was about, you know, the head of a division wanted to do something.
George Hemingway:
Clearly someone thought through that RFP. I looked at it, made some comments, sent it back, their RFP changed.
And now suddenly you understood they were using that RFP, you know, for multiple people. You know, the nice thing about an RFP is that if it’s a very clearly definable, repeatable structural piece of work, where you’re like, do me a technology scan on the market for air conditioning units globally, along these five different areas. Oh, well, in that particular case, an RFP makes sense. It’s very defined.
You may have a slightly different approach than your competitor, and that’s the differentiator, but, you know, at least you can answer it. Someone else can answer it. You can decide if you want to do that sort of work.
I think in a lot of the strategy work we do where you know that the end project may not look like the beginning of the project forecasted it would be. And RFP becomes a little bit more confusing, a little bit more structured.
So when you answer an RFP, you really have to ask yourself the question, do I even want to engage in a competitive bid for a piece of work where I may just be the dark horse, right? Where I may just be the person that they’re throwing out there in order to get a different number.
And when our proposals are as deeply written as they are, they take work, they take time, they take investment. Each one is unique. You know, investing in an RFP is a significant investment in time and capacity for us.
If what we were doing was rince and repeat, hell, I’d probably answer a crap ton of them, but it’s not, and therefore, each one of those is taking us away, from something really critical.
So an RFP that comes unsolicited without a discussion beforehand, without an engagement beforehand is almost certainly a no.
We really have to want to desire to get into a company or desire to get into an industry, to even consider responding to an unsolicited RFP from someone we don’t know. Does that make sense?
Hélène:
No. No. It’s very interesting. Cause I always tell my clients that they need to be thoughtful when they prepare their RFPs and when they organize bits, they need to be thoughtful about those consultants that are going to answer.
And there is no point of inviting 10 of them because you’re just, you know, making them waste their time.
And when they invite one, it has to be because they really want to work with them and they’re hesitating. So, right.
That’s why I say very often. And to your point before, I think that you’re typically, because of the type of work you’re doing, you’re typically the type of company where a pure RFP process is not working.
You need to go on what they call the RFI, meaning that you do a very, very light process where you just get to know the company, understand what they do, and then figure out if the approach could be the one you’re looking for.
And when you have done that, you know, first and understood , oh, I’d like more to work with that company because I think they get the right, you know, approach and the right fit with us. Then we write the RFP
George Hemingway:
So let me tell you the last RFP I did right. It was against us and it was against a direct competitor. One of whom I’m named, who was very clear to me, who the competitor was. The RFP was very clearly for something in our sweet spot.
And very clearly for something in their sweet spot. Now it was very clear. It was a very clearly written RFP, what needed to be in each of the different sections.
What were the 10 sections they wanted? What did they want to see? And it was between us and them. That was fine. I was very clear why we were answering that, why we were involved and that we were one of two being considered, genuinely considered.
Which case, sure, why not? None. There’s no harm in a competition.
Eli Peleg:
I think one of the reasons why neither of us are working in the public sector is because in the public sector, RFP is mandatory.
And it starts to be the main process rather a being supporting part of an engagement that you specifically define and clearly choose who you want to have a discussion with. So in the public sector is something I would never do.
George Hemingway:
I echo exactly what he’s saying. That’s the reason why when your RFP is your filtering process, then you know, okay. Make it a page long, make the response a page long, you know, perfectly fine. I’ll take my time, you know, to write a page long response to something like that.
But, you know, when, you know, it’s literally public in the public sector, these RFPs most of the time. Right. But that’s not something you’re gonna invest a, you know, Lord save me, 25-page proposal in size 10 font, because we really think about what we do.
Every single request we do is an investment of love. Every proposal we put together, I’m sorry, doesn’t happen because we had a really, really cool idea on how to do it. And that takes time to put together. You don’t just copy and paste them one to the other.
Hélène:
No I think, this is a very fair point. That at the same time, those RFPs need to be precise enough, so the consulting firm knows where the company is, where they want to go, what they’ve done before. And then what they’re trying to achieve through that project, that’s one thing. But at the same time, it has to be vague enough I’d say.
Vague is not the right word, but it has to leave some room for creativity and customization. Because if you want something repetitive, even a very operational project can take many forms, can have a scope that goes from very small to very big.
And if the requirements are not clearly defined, it can be very hard to really understand what are the real needs for the client. And the price of course is impacted. I did recently a market entry, and this was not market entry.
This was strategic options review for a high-tech company in France. And they wanted everything, oh, we want all the market screened. I would say like, no, you can’t do that. It’s gonna take forever. And you don’t have 10 million on you.
George Hemingway:
Well, I was gonna say, you can do it. I’d be happy to do that work. 10 million sounds lovely.
Hélène:
Yeah, exactly. So I was saying, is it relevant for you? And does that make sense? And you have to be smart about it, but I don’t want: “I want to leave no stone unturned.”
It’s like, come on, you’ve been doing that for 20 years. Don’t you know a little bit your market. Don’t you know already some of the avenues that are not working or are not close to your core business.
George Hemingway:
So, and that’s what a good consultancy and maybe good procurement, if they’re strategic enough, right will help you to frame that.
Because they’ll say, what is the real decision you need to make? Have you thought about that? Have you taken the time to think about that.
Because you’re right: no one reads a 10,000-page research study, right? it’s the why do you want it? And most people, a lot of people don’t ask that question. And so you have to really, you help them and oftentimes that’s our job. If someone else did it that would be valuable because it’s crisp. You know.
Hélène:
What about the clients we talked about?
Eli Peleg:
If I go ahead, had another sentence on that, because that’s a very interesting topic. Is that the place of the procurement guy in the overall discussion, what do you want to procure? Because in real life, it does happen, not with consultancy.
When I sit down in discussion about cost reductions, for example, and you find out that there are embedded costs that are basically in the development phase, well defined and you see that procurement didn’t have any impact on the discussion.
Do you really need that feature? Do you really need that color? Do you really need that stuff? And after we are gone, he’s there in the discussion and the same about, you know, yield and losses.
So in the ongoing operation, you will find today procurement, good procurement guys sitting in discussion on things that it’s not in their core competence, but they have value because of what they do and what they can contribute.
And it’s basically focusing what you are procuring. And I haven’t seen that happen.
George Hemingway:
And just to piggyback off of that, and also piggy off of something that Eli was saying earlier about, you know, in an ideal world, I lead my clients with something they can do themselves. Right. Which I mean, I love that. I try to do that too.
It’s a little harder sometimes in non-linear divergent thinking, but a hundred percent right philosophy. You know, one of the things, you know, I see is often I have to engage with the procurement departments on behalf of my clients, within their own companies on other projects, because they’re procuring heavy machinery or they’re procuring this, or they’re procuring that.
And one of the things that you, and we can talk about this, some more detail if you want. But one of the things you notice as well is that when procurement understands all the pain points that exist at the end of an engagement, you know, or even post the end of an engagement, say with engineering firms, they’re like consultancies, right?
George Hemingway:
Or consultancies or other, you often find that, Hey, you know, you’ll get a conversation like this. You know, they did that project. It’s millions of dollars. So we keep hiring them and they own all our data.
We can’t do anything for ourselves. And you’ll start hearing this across many, many different facets, many, many different sub clients within a company . And you realize that that could have been solved if the procurement department earlier in the process had known, that was part of what should have been in the contract.
And fundamentally that’s a strategic challenge for the company that you only learn when you come back in, way after it’s over .And that’s a learning that can be across many, many areas. And that’s an important role as well.
It’s not just the front of the contract. It’s understanding all the stuff that happens after everyone’s gone and protecting the company and building those things in at the beginning. It’s just a thought.
Hélène:
No, no, absolutely. You know, I was recently negotiating in a contract, the IP and the right to use the reports afterwards and the consulting firm was being extremely strict on saying you can’t use anything. We were saying like, what’s the point of working with you?
George Hemingway:
Why did I just spend millions of dollars on you? If what you’re essentially saying is it’s a report I can’t use, I can’t reuse spot on. Right. And you know why, because they’ve learned to abuse it.
Engineering firms also do this, they’ve learned to abuse it. Now you need to come back to them just to use your own data.
Hélène:
Yeah. And it was a very big consulting firm, that had outsourced their legal department. It was a mid-sized very, you know, fast-growing company. And so, but they were smart enough.
They knew that because they were, since they were in High Tech, they’re very, very aware of everything IP. So they didn’t get into that.
So you know, now it’s time to conclude and I want, you know, the listeners, to have that one takeaways from the conversation. So while we’ll ask you to be extremely condensed on this one. What do you want a listener to remember from that conversation?
Eli Peleg:
That’s a very good question. I think that there is a lot of room for companies to do more in consulting procurement.
And the main reason I’m saying that is not because that it is expensive or not expensive. If you look on the overall, you know, portfolio of expenses of industrial corporation, I don’t think consulting will be in the first place and probably not even in the middle. I think the important thing is the impact.
So what George is doing will impact the companies for the next decade or so. And that’s why it is so important. And what I’m doing sometimes is a survival of the organization. And sometimes like, real examples that I had is how to impact the share price that will enable the company to do much more. So the impact of our work is the way to look on how important it is.
And if it is important in terms of the impact, then the investment of the organization to should come and define how best to improve what they do today. Because currently it’s really transactional. It’s really minimal. And frankly, I don’t see a lot of value in that. So I think that’s the main thing turning the procurement impact consideration rather than the cost.
George Hemingway:
I mean, I love what Eli said. It’s a great way of looking at it, obviously. But I think, you know, I think the one thing I would take away, especially if I was speaking to a procurement professional and to a company as a whole, is to engage, engage with us, engage with us and engage with your clients and engage with each other at different companies to really understand what the options are.
I mean consulting is opaque and varied by its very nature. It is like medicine and you cannot, you know, source a general practitioner the same way as you would a neurosurgeon, and so I think it’s important to engage.
I think most consultancies will not mind engaging in intelligent conversations to help understand what we do. And in doing so I think you end up providing more options to your clients internally, and so forth and so on.
George Hemingway:
So I would say engage, engage with each other, learn what others are doing, engage with us, especially early in the process. It’s not always about money. It’s not always about, you know, ISO 9,001 certification X.
Sometimes it’s about simply understanding what is it you guys do? Who do you work with? Who do you compete with? And then figuring out for yourself, you know, would I hire these people? And I think that kind of engagement is critical.
Otherwise at the end of the process, really it is a rubber stamp, a rubber stamp that can say 5% sure, but a rubber stamp, and at that point there really isn’t engagement. We’re just simply following the rules you set.
Hélène:
Well, thank you. That was very interesting. Thank you for joining the show today. It was a pleasure to have you both.
George Hemingway:
Thanks for having us.
Hélène:
Thank you for joining our show today.
That marks the end of our podcast. So keep an eye out for me next week when I return with another exciting topic.
Until then stay safe and happy sourcing.
If you have other questions about buying consulting and how to say ahead of the market, remember you can always contact me directly on LinkedIn or by email because I’m always game for a chat.
Bye and see you next week. Au revoir!
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